Hello, hello! I'm joining the chat today from downtown Kansas City where I just had an amazing drink that had the words cold brew + foam + vanilla + orange in the name. I'm listening to Big Red Machine's new album, because Taylor Swift told me to. 🙂
Welcome to the chat today! I'll start various prompts and you can respond to and/all of them with your own comments. Each thread will nest itself where we can reply and chat about those topics together. Where are you joining from and are you drinking or eating anything delicious?
One of the best ways to reflect and think about nurturing the spiritual development of children is to remember our own childhood experiences. So I wonder... what are some of your early memories of God or spiritual experiences when you were a child? What did you feel?
I wrote about my earliest experience of God in my first Viriditas post - It seems most of my early memories of experiencing God or something bigger than myself happened when I was outside in nature. These were positive experiences - I remember feeling peace and ease. However many of my early memories of church are not positive. I remember being teased by my Sunday School teachers, and being reprimanded for "being loud" at VBS. (But where else was I supposed to be loud???)
Hello to both Janette and Heather! Pleased to share with you both again. I am a first born. As a tiny tot, my parents spent endless hours helping me memorize scripture (KJV) to quote in front of the church we attended on Sunday mornings. I was shy, but did so to please my parents. As I look back now I believe this conditioned me to pushed myself out of my introverted comfort zone and to be willing to speak in front of others... perhaps leading to my career choice to be an elementary teacher... and to also devote myself to serve on district wide committees providing professional development for fellow colleagues.
I remember loving the gathering of church people, the old hymns, and my father's singing as a child. Music still 'speaks' to me and is one avenue through which I experience God.
My teen years, however, became very difficult due to the rigidity of the conservative belief system of the church and the restrictions that were placed upon females in particular. I became very silent... attempting to reach perfectionism in word, thought and deed. I continue to hold this tension to this day, joy and fear, in regard to my spiritual development.
Hi Kristi! Thanks for joining in here. You describe this tension beautifully... your reflections on coming out of your shy comfort zone renew for me the age-old wondering about nature vs. nurture, and how our stories are about who we are AND how we were raised.
I was just speaking with someone this week about how the rituals, sacraments, and familiar hymns provide a safe 'home' in the church even when we have larger questions about our faith and the church.
I agree, nature and nurture (not either/or, but both) contribute to our make up as individuals, as whole beings (spirit, physical bodies, and minds), reminiscent of the Holy Trinity we read of in the Bible. After all, we (both male & female) are made in God's image.
Another significant influence on spiritual development is PLACE! I wonder what you remember about significant places as a child? Where did you feel safest to be yourself, and what qualities did that place have that you think made a difference?
When I was 9 or 10 maybe, my grandparents bought a house on some land about an hour from where we lived. We spent every Thanksgiving there and visited a few other times each year. I remember exploring the land, making forts and playhouses from dilapidated sheds, running through the woods, and swinging (of course) on the tire swing in the front yard. I felt so at home there... I suspect it had something to do with all of the free space to run and play uninhibited... to create and explore on my own terms. I felt so happy and like I had endless options for how I could spend my time. And I suspect being with all of my family helped - I am an extrovert after all and I loved that there was always someone around to do something with.
I remember feeling a lot of pressure to be perfect as a pastor’s kid growing up. I played the role well, but it always felt superficial. I do recall feeling most close to God during church camp (children’s or teen camp).
Did your dad attend camp or was that a place you could take off your pastor's kid hat? I wonder if being with other children helped camp feel like a place you could be you. Are there metaphorical or literal places now where that itch is scratched for you? (treat these questions as rhetorical if you'd like - no pressure to answer here)
Sometimes my dad attended camp. He always gave me a lot of space to be myself. Frankly we rarely interacted. I didn’t feel pressure from him, but I felt pressure from other church members who rarely attended. Ha.
It was the pastor's wife who grabbed me by the arm and reprimanded me at VBS. That really changed my experience of church for a long time (until you arrived, honestly)
I’m so sorry that was your experience. I think we both know I am not classified as a “fun” person, but when I was a pastor’s wife, I wanted people (especially youth and children) to feel safe with me. I wanted them to look forward to seeing me because I would love them exactly as they were. I wish I showed the same grace and love to my own kids…hmmm, conviction…in a good way.
My son is 4 and he is his purest self when he is playing imaginatively or creating worlds of his own to play with the toys that he is currently deep-diving. Right now it's dinosaurs, and when he has the freedom to set the tone for his time, he is organizing, learning, and pretending, often with impeccable attention to detail!
I have four children. Parker is 15, and he is an amazing writer. He is an introvert who is most himself when writing or playing games. Grayson is 12, and he loves science. He has wanted to be engineer since he was 4. I see him most himself when he is learning about anything science related or coding. Hollyn is 8, and she is my creative child. She is most herself when she is dancing. She takes pride in her lines and poise. It brings her joy. Tate is 6 and he is my child who has to fight hard for everything. Nothing comes easily to him, but he is always himself. He doesn’t fake anything. You get what you get. Sometimes I am jealous of that freedom in the midst of struggle.
I love the diversity represented in your children, and how creativity is expressed differently in each of them. Rebecca Nye talks about a child's "spiritual signature" - where they are really speaking from the heart. She talks about the value of encouraging them to draw from this source as a way to nurture their spirituality. A question to ponder (or respond here, if you'd like) is how can you help your kids draw from those interests to grow spiritually? I suspect there are ways you are already doing this! What does it look like to be with God as a quiet writer? a questioning scientist? a precise dancer? a tenacious fighter? (Tate reminds me of Francie in that way!)
This is a great question. Honestly, I don’t feel very well equipped in nurturing my children’s spirituality. But I try to be honest in this with them. Parker and I started reading the book of Joshua together before school. He started high school just this week. Grayson asks lots of questions about the world. I have always felt comfortable with the tension between faith and science, and we talk about how both can exist simultaneously. For Hollyn and her dance, I need to do better. I am thinking that we should spend time in Psalms. Do you know if there is a book for kids that focuses on Psalms? For Tate I speak this truth over him daily…Tate you bear God’s image. Regardless of your physical and intellectual challenges, it doesn’t impact how you are an image bearer of God. I found a really great book called Image Bearer that I have read to him and Hollyn.
Knowing you personally, I think you do so well with this, much better than you give yourself credit for. The fact that you ask the question and take the time to consider this stuff is one sign of that! It sounds like you've got some great things going already. Even just seeing their interests and creating space for that nurtures spirituality. Sounds like their faith is nurtured through reflection, action, movement, and being (respectively) - amazing!! Let me look for some Psalms resources and get back to you.
Ok, so I found this at a quick glance and some of the reviews say it involves dance - I will see if I can find a library copy somewhere before you purchase. may be worth a look, and could cover lots of bases for your kids. https://www.amazon.com/Real-Kids-Faith-Practices-Nurturing/dp/0787964077
I wonder if Hollyn and Julian want to get together to write a play about a story of faith. Between the two of them they could create roles, songs, and choreography! Maybe in a few years... In the mean time maybe that would be something Hollyn would enjoy doing - choreographing to worship music or telling a story through dance?
Immerse children in the bibilical/faith tradition stories. Who are the people in our children’s “neighborhoods”? Children relate to characters and images they see frequently. Media images are everywhere. How do children develop a relationship with the images and characters of their faith tradition? How can we immerse children in singing, dancing, re-telling, drawing, dramatizing the stories so they form a deep imaginative identification with David, Miriam, Daniel, Mary and others; so they can “try on” these roles and become familiar with them? The experiences children have, the images they see, and the stories they hear become lasting frameworks on which they construct their perceptions of reality. How can we enable children to receive, hear, celebrate, tell and become “the story?” (Brueggemann)
Nathan, my first born, is sensitive and perfectionistic (wonder where he saw that trait modelled, lol). He is curious and competitive and thoughtful. Nolan, my 4 year old, likes to playfully tease and pretend. They both respond to the outdoors and to music, and we as parents utilize both of these to help bring calm when they are having big feelings.
Do they have a specific song that helps them settle? We have found similar responses with Tate to help him manage big feelings. It makes me wonder if kids sense God in the outdoors, and if they feel his peace.
I think they do. Music is greatly connected to mathematics. The entire universe is mathematical when one begins to study the alignment of tides, seasons, etc. There is a cadence to our lives and our body systems. After all, we are mammals. God is the Great I Am. And we are one.
I've been reading a little about a practice some use called 'grounding'. At some point in the day to stand outdoors on the earth with bare feet and just be calm... a form of meditation. Previous generations in my family were farmers and they spent a lot of time out doors and on the land. We're now in a modern age with so much technology and mostly indoors, it has affected our 'connection' with God, I think.
Your question brought up another question in my mind. Music is written in different time signatures (ex. 3/4 time, 4/4 time). I wonder if one time signature is more calming than others? I know when I was teaching, before any mathematical exam I would give to my 4th grade students, I would put on classical Baroque music for a few minutes before administering the test. I had read somewhere that Baroque music helped the brain access the logical mathematical side of the brain. I wanted my students to perform well... so I was willing to try anything! Ha! They loved it too. Would even ask me to turn on even if I forgot.
And now this has given me a question/idea! In another comment I referenced Rebecca Nye's idea that each child has a "spiritual signature" where they are speaking from the heart. Different musical signatures produce different sounds (obviously) and have different rhythms, patterns, etc. When we are attentive to a child's own 'signature' rather than cookie-cutting them into a one-size-fits-all spiritual nurture, I wonder what we would notice and encourage in our kids. And I wonder how this encouragement would enable their signature to really shine ❤️
I think you are so right. I think when God created the world that he intended us to interact with nature regularly. It seems to be the easiest way for to find God...in nature. I think that makes sense because creation is the visual representation of God. Admittedly, our family doesn't interact with nature as much as we probably should to really begin to appreciate the very essence of God. This concept of grounding is really interesting. I am going to have to look more into it....as a way to connect with God.
I love this idea of "helping bring calm when they are having big feelings." I follow a woman called Dr. Becky on Instagram, and she talks about how kids aren't GIVING us a hard time, but simply HAVING a hard time. That realization shifted my parenting. I don't get it right every time, but when I can see them as little humans trying to regulate (just like me!!), then it becomes easier to respond with what they need. Taking it a step further... I wonder how I can make more direct connections in this process to our faith.
Wrapping up for now - but feel free to comment later if you find yourself reading these comments and wanting to do some reflecting too. Watch this space for more from Viriditas soon! (Thanks for being here, Heather. ❤️)
Hello, hello! I'm joining the chat today from downtown Kansas City where I just had an amazing drink that had the words cold brew + foam + vanilla + orange in the name. I'm listening to Big Red Machine's new album, because Taylor Swift told me to. 🙂
Welcome to the chat today! I'll start various prompts and you can respond to and/all of them with your own comments. Each thread will nest itself where we can reply and chat about those topics together. Where are you joining from and are you drinking or eating anything delicious?
Ooh… must ask what coffee shop?
Messenger on Grand! My friend Devon brought me. Would love to meet you here sometime.
One of the best ways to reflect and think about nurturing the spiritual development of children is to remember our own childhood experiences. So I wonder... what are some of your early memories of God or spiritual experiences when you were a child? What did you feel?
I wrote about my earliest experience of God in my first Viriditas post - It seems most of my early memories of experiencing God or something bigger than myself happened when I was outside in nature. These were positive experiences - I remember feeling peace and ease. However many of my early memories of church are not positive. I remember being teased by my Sunday School teachers, and being reprimanded for "being loud" at VBS. (But where else was I supposed to be loud???)
Hello to both Janette and Heather! Pleased to share with you both again. I am a first born. As a tiny tot, my parents spent endless hours helping me memorize scripture (KJV) to quote in front of the church we attended on Sunday mornings. I was shy, but did so to please my parents. As I look back now I believe this conditioned me to pushed myself out of my introverted comfort zone and to be willing to speak in front of others... perhaps leading to my career choice to be an elementary teacher... and to also devote myself to serve on district wide committees providing professional development for fellow colleagues.
I remember loving the gathering of church people, the old hymns, and my father's singing as a child. Music still 'speaks' to me and is one avenue through which I experience God.
My teen years, however, became very difficult due to the rigidity of the conservative belief system of the church and the restrictions that were placed upon females in particular. I became very silent... attempting to reach perfectionism in word, thought and deed. I continue to hold this tension to this day, joy and fear, in regard to my spiritual development.
Hi Kristi! Thanks for joining in here. You describe this tension beautifully... your reflections on coming out of your shy comfort zone renew for me the age-old wondering about nature vs. nurture, and how our stories are about who we are AND how we were raised.
I was just speaking with someone this week about how the rituals, sacraments, and familiar hymns provide a safe 'home' in the church even when we have larger questions about our faith and the church.
I agree, nature and nurture (not either/or, but both) contribute to our make up as individuals, as whole beings (spirit, physical bodies, and minds), reminiscent of the Holy Trinity we read of in the Bible. After all, we (both male & female) are made in God's image.
I am joining from Liberty MO. Not eating or drinking at the moment, but I am surrounded by my kids who are doing various activities.
Welcome Heather! Please tell them I say hello. 🙂 I'm posting a few prompts to start - feel free to hit "reply" on any of those to join in.
Hollyn says hi, and Tate is yelling while playing with various strings.
Another significant influence on spiritual development is PLACE! I wonder what you remember about significant places as a child? Where did you feel safest to be yourself, and what qualities did that place have that you think made a difference?
When I was 9 or 10 maybe, my grandparents bought a house on some land about an hour from where we lived. We spent every Thanksgiving there and visited a few other times each year. I remember exploring the land, making forts and playhouses from dilapidated sheds, running through the woods, and swinging (of course) on the tire swing in the front yard. I felt so at home there... I suspect it had something to do with all of the free space to run and play uninhibited... to create and explore on my own terms. I felt so happy and like I had endless options for how I could spend my time. And I suspect being with all of my family helped - I am an extrovert after all and I loved that there was always someone around to do something with.
I remember feeling a lot of pressure to be perfect as a pastor’s kid growing up. I played the role well, but it always felt superficial. I do recall feeling most close to God during church camp (children’s or teen camp).
Did your dad attend camp or was that a place you could take off your pastor's kid hat? I wonder if being with other children helped camp feel like a place you could be you. Are there metaphorical or literal places now where that itch is scratched for you? (treat these questions as rhetorical if you'd like - no pressure to answer here)
Sometimes my dad attended camp. He always gave me a lot of space to be myself. Frankly we rarely interacted. I didn’t feel pressure from him, but I felt pressure from other church members who rarely attended. Ha.
It was the pastor's wife who grabbed me by the arm and reprimanded me at VBS. That really changed my experience of church for a long time (until you arrived, honestly)
I’m so sorry that was your experience. I think we both know I am not classified as a “fun” person, but when I was a pastor’s wife, I wanted people (especially youth and children) to feel safe with me. I wanted them to look forward to seeing me because I would love them exactly as they were. I wish I showed the same grace and love to my own kids…hmmm, conviction…in a good way.
I certainly have always felt that with you ❤️
I wonder about the children in your life - what age(s) are they and what are they like? When do you see them being most themselves?
My son is 4 and he is his purest self when he is playing imaginatively or creating worlds of his own to play with the toys that he is currently deep-diving. Right now it's dinosaurs, and when he has the freedom to set the tone for his time, he is organizing, learning, and pretending, often with impeccable attention to detail!
I have four children. Parker is 15, and he is an amazing writer. He is an introvert who is most himself when writing or playing games. Grayson is 12, and he loves science. He has wanted to be engineer since he was 4. I see him most himself when he is learning about anything science related or coding. Hollyn is 8, and she is my creative child. She is most herself when she is dancing. She takes pride in her lines and poise. It brings her joy. Tate is 6 and he is my child who has to fight hard for everything. Nothing comes easily to him, but he is always himself. He doesn’t fake anything. You get what you get. Sometimes I am jealous of that freedom in the midst of struggle.
I love the diversity represented in your children, and how creativity is expressed differently in each of them. Rebecca Nye talks about a child's "spiritual signature" - where they are really speaking from the heart. She talks about the value of encouraging them to draw from this source as a way to nurture their spirituality. A question to ponder (or respond here, if you'd like) is how can you help your kids draw from those interests to grow spiritually? I suspect there are ways you are already doing this! What does it look like to be with God as a quiet writer? a questioning scientist? a precise dancer? a tenacious fighter? (Tate reminds me of Francie in that way!)
This is a great question. Honestly, I don’t feel very well equipped in nurturing my children’s spirituality. But I try to be honest in this with them. Parker and I started reading the book of Joshua together before school. He started high school just this week. Grayson asks lots of questions about the world. I have always felt comfortable with the tension between faith and science, and we talk about how both can exist simultaneously. For Hollyn and her dance, I need to do better. I am thinking that we should spend time in Psalms. Do you know if there is a book for kids that focuses on Psalms? For Tate I speak this truth over him daily…Tate you bear God’s image. Regardless of your physical and intellectual challenges, it doesn’t impact how you are an image bearer of God. I found a really great book called Image Bearer that I have read to him and Hollyn.
Knowing you personally, I think you do so well with this, much better than you give yourself credit for. The fact that you ask the question and take the time to consider this stuff is one sign of that! It sounds like you've got some great things going already. Even just seeing their interests and creating space for that nurtures spirituality. Sounds like their faith is nurtured through reflection, action, movement, and being (respectively) - amazing!! Let me look for some Psalms resources and get back to you.
Ok, so I found this at a quick glance and some of the reviews say it involves dance - I will see if I can find a library copy somewhere before you purchase. may be worth a look, and could cover lots of bases for your kids. https://www.amazon.com/Real-Kids-Faith-Practices-Nurturing/dp/0787964077
I wonder if Hollyn and Julian want to get together to write a play about a story of faith. Between the two of them they could create roles, songs, and choreography! Maybe in a few years... In the mean time maybe that would be something Hollyn would enjoy doing - choreographing to worship music or telling a story through dance?
Another for Hollyn - just found this from https://emu.edu/now/news/2005/practices-nurturing-children-faith/
Immerse children in the bibilical/faith tradition stories. Who are the people in our children’s “neighborhoods”? Children relate to characters and images they see frequently. Media images are everywhere. How do children develop a relationship with the images and characters of their faith tradition? How can we immerse children in singing, dancing, re-telling, drawing, dramatizing the stories so they form a deep imaginative identification with David, Miriam, Daniel, Mary and others; so they can “try on” these roles and become familiar with them? The experiences children have, the images they see, and the stories they hear become lasting frameworks on which they construct their perceptions of reality. How can we enable children to receive, hear, celebrate, tell and become “the story?” (Brueggemann)
And, at a quick glance this book looks really nice:
https://www.christianbook.com/wonderfull-ancient-psalms-ever-new/marty-machowski/9781948130745/pd/8130745?en=google&event=SHOP&kw=childrens-books-20-40%7C8130745&p=1179710&dv=c&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvaeJBhCvARIsABgTDM5UedmY8YAWwQijZvJ5WLfkOzTLpcRVewTE4NB5g4Liu-8fKO98-CEaAirDEALw_wcB#CBD-PD-Description
This is a great idea. I will for sure look into it and encourage her to try.
Nathan, my first born, is sensitive and perfectionistic (wonder where he saw that trait modelled, lol). He is curious and competitive and thoughtful. Nolan, my 4 year old, likes to playfully tease and pretend. They both respond to the outdoors and to music, and we as parents utilize both of these to help bring calm when they are having big feelings.
Do they have a specific song that helps them settle? We have found similar responses with Tate to help him manage big feelings. It makes me wonder if kids sense God in the outdoors, and if they feel his peace.
I think they do. Music is greatly connected to mathematics. The entire universe is mathematical when one begins to study the alignment of tides, seasons, etc. There is a cadence to our lives and our body systems. After all, we are mammals. God is the Great I Am. And we are one.
I've been reading a little about a practice some use called 'grounding'. At some point in the day to stand outdoors on the earth with bare feet and just be calm... a form of meditation. Previous generations in my family were farmers and they spent a lot of time out doors and on the land. We're now in a modern age with so much technology and mostly indoors, it has affected our 'connection' with God, I think.
Your question brought up another question in my mind. Music is written in different time signatures (ex. 3/4 time, 4/4 time). I wonder if one time signature is more calming than others? I know when I was teaching, before any mathematical exam I would give to my 4th grade students, I would put on classical Baroque music for a few minutes before administering the test. I had read somewhere that Baroque music helped the brain access the logical mathematical side of the brain. I wanted my students to perform well... so I was willing to try anything! Ha! They loved it too. Would even ask me to turn on even if I forgot.
And now this has given me a question/idea! In another comment I referenced Rebecca Nye's idea that each child has a "spiritual signature" where they are speaking from the heart. Different musical signatures produce different sounds (obviously) and have different rhythms, patterns, etc. When we are attentive to a child's own 'signature' rather than cookie-cutting them into a one-size-fits-all spiritual nurture, I wonder what we would notice and encourage in our kids. And I wonder how this encouragement would enable their signature to really shine ❤️
Yes, a new creation in Christ, totally their own person!
I think you are so right. I think when God created the world that he intended us to interact with nature regularly. It seems to be the easiest way for to find God...in nature. I think that makes sense because creation is the visual representation of God. Admittedly, our family doesn't interact with nature as much as we probably should to really begin to appreciate the very essence of God. This concept of grounding is really interesting. I am going to have to look more into it....as a way to connect with God.
I love this idea of "helping bring calm when they are having big feelings." I follow a woman called Dr. Becky on Instagram, and she talks about how kids aren't GIVING us a hard time, but simply HAVING a hard time. That realization shifted my parenting. I don't get it right every time, but when I can see them as little humans trying to regulate (just like me!!), then it becomes easier to respond with what they need. Taking it a step further... I wonder how I can make more direct connections in this process to our faith.
I wonder what questions you have about children's spirituality? Anything I can think about with you?
Wrapping up for now - but feel free to comment later if you find yourself reading these comments and wanting to do some reflecting too. Watch this space for more from Viriditas soon! (Thanks for being here, Heather. ❤️)
Some questions we didn't get to but are on the forefront of my mind:
What do we learn about God from our children?
How do we experience their ministry to us?
How do they nurture OUR spirituality?
❤️